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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  September 24, 2014 12:00am-1:01am EDT

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>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight, an exclusive interview with abdel-fattah el-sisi, the president of egypt. >> ( translated ): the egyptians understand the states and institutions are keen on the strategic relationship between egypt and the united states. there may be differences in opinion. this is possible. this is normal in relations among countries. but still, the relation between egypt and the united states, a stable and strategic one. >> rose: the president of egypt for the hour, next. funding for charlie rose is provided by the following:
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>> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say. around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look. >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.
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>> rose: abdel-fattah el-sisi was sworn in as egypt's sixth president in june of 2014. this was almost a year after the cue he red as egypt's forces removing marsi . he called for an inclusive government, urging egyptians to be ready for the hard work fades, from the weak economy to the threat posed by islamic militant, such as isis. al-sisi addressed the challenge of terrorism in a recent speech. >> ( translated ): the real solution is to recognize the problem and how big of a problem or the size of this problem and to move towards solving and overcoming the problems. by the will of god and god alone, and through you, you egyptians, all egyptian people, and all the loyal and the
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honorable citizens. we will fulfill the hope that we basically look towards, and we look upon. the next topic that is very important to talk about together is we face a challenge, real challenge. i'm talking about our martyrs who fell in the past couple of days. we mentioned that we are facing terrorism and with people who seek to destroy this nation and consider us not one of them, consider us enemies. and we are moving with them, and we face them. we try to confront them with a lot, lot of firmness and a lot of decisiveness, but also at the
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same time, we're very careful as we execute this, and i am repeating this for the fourth time probably that we will not trespass or step out of line that would offend or harm the people or the inhabitant who live there in these areas. so that no innocent people would fall or would be harmed from these confrontations. we said that this matter, we went a long way and we had a the lot of successes in it. but i tell you that it still won't end quickly, meaning that we will not find the stability that you long for overnight, but we're working at that. but we also need you, also, from all egyptians, from all the egyptian people, to have an eye on everything with us and lend a hand with us.
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i am where i have generators or electric converters. keep your eye with us. don't let anyone come near it. it belongs to all of us. >> rose: president al-sisi is in new york for the first time since he became president. yesterday i sat down with him for an exclusive conversation about eegypt, its role in the region, terrorism, and much more. mr. president, thank you for doing this. welcome to new york. you're here for the united nations general assembly. what do you hope to accomplish? >> ( translated ): i as a matter of fact think it is important to introduce egypt to the world after the events egypt underwent in the last two years, let me say almost the last four years, very important for the people to see egypt and to hear
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egypt through the egyptians, or through me in one way or anoth another. >> rose: what do you want us to hear? >> ( translated ): egypt is a pivotal country in the region, and it is the bedrock of stability in the area. and remember that egypt was the first country to clinch peace agreement with israel and egypt by this is a candidate to play a more influential role. i don't think many countries can undertake the role that egypt can do. i believe egypt can work freely with both sides of the israelis and the palestinians. egypt enjoys credibility with both sides, israelis and palestinians.
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this is one important issue. if we can succeed to reach real peace, we will be able to achieve a lot in the region. it's very important for the people, also, to know that there is now a new egypt. there is the will of the egyptians now. the world heard about egypt on the 25th of january, 2011, but there is another revolution that took place, very critical for the whole world to know that this revolution took place as well at the hand of the egyptians. the egyptians are able to make two revolutions in four years, yes. the egyptians are capable people. they can make change for a better future for the country. >> rose: why was the second
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ref hugherevolution necessary? you had a democratically elected government. >> egyptians felt their country was approaching dangerous extremism. it was going into a path that egyptians did not want for the country. they wanted freedoms. they wanted democracy. they wanted social justice. they did not want a religious state in the way egypt was approaching, and that was the thing that made the egyptians believe that the social contract between the people and the former president on which they voted for to accept pluralization, to accept national fabric of all egyptians, and inclusiveness. that did not happen.
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they said no. >> rose: and what did he do? >> ( translated ): he dedicated the idea of the group. he caused division among the egyptians. also, the problems of egypt were monumental. no one faction or group would be able to confront all of these problems. it needs all egyptians to work together to overcome these problems. he couldn't do that. another important point that we need to know, that there wasn't a mechanism in the previous constitution to allow, even after only one year in term of office, to impeach the preside
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president. and to enable the people to impeach a president that they chose in the first place. had they showed flexibility and readiness to announce for early presidential elections, egypt would have been saved a lot of problems. >> rose: was it a coup? >> ( translated ): if the will of the egyptians, 30 million egyptians is seen as a coup, i want to say there is one important fact that i want you to know. the fact of an egyptian military making coups is something that egypt has passed a long time ago, but there was a response
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for the will of the egyptians. >> rose: what will the muslim brotherhood have to be to be included again in the political future of israel-- of egypt? >> ( translated ): they didn't have to do anything. the announcement of the third of july was providing ample opportunity for the full spectrum of the political powers in egypt to reparticipate. they only needed to agree to participate for the second time, to participate in the elections, to be part of the constitutional amendments. there would have been another chance for, mostly even to run again for office.
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but the question was, and i will still repeat it-- did they want participation or did they want confrontation? m afraid they chose confrontation. if you allow me to complete here, the issue now is not with the government. the problem is with the egyptians. the egyptians are the ones who need to reconcile. the egyptians are the ones who need to be convinced. the egyptian people feel at least a major part of the egyptians, have been hurt a lot but the muslim brothers and their practices during the past year. >> rose: and their future is what, the muslim brotherhood? what is their future? >> ( translated ): it's the
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call of the egyptians. will they denounce violence? will they have the will to apologize to egyptians? will they be ready to participate in the political process with its terms and conditions? to the moment we are speaking now, they are resulting to violence. >> rose: at this moment. >> ( translated ), of course,, of course. >> rose: the relationship with the united states and what happened to president mubarak, did it do damage to the u.s.-egyptian relationship? >> ( translated ): absolute not. never. the egyptians understand the states and institutions are keen on the strategic relationship
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between egypt and the united states. there may be differences in opinion. this is possible. this is normal in relations among countries. but still, the relation between egypt and the united states, a stable and strategic one. >> rose: and aid will continue to flow from the united states to egypt? >> ( translated ): out of the question. >> rose: one of the first visits outside of egypt you made was to go to russia. have received enormous economic aid from saudi arabia and other arab friends. is that a signal you don't need america in the same way you had? >> ( translated ): this is a difficult question. out of-- out of our traditions, we cannot build relationship on usury and manipulation. >> rose: was it there, usury and manipulation?
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>> ( translated ): this relationship is founded on solid grounds. the united states has provided a lot to egypt. and as i said before, if we have difference in opinion, this doesn't mean that we are forget all this history. >> rose: what are the differences upo of opinion? >> ( translated ): i know that judging the set of affairs in egypt is quite unique. this is-- we don't have ref resolution every day in countries around the world. but egypt is living symptoms of a revolutionary state for four years. and this needs to be seen within the right context.
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>> rose: what do you want from the united states? define the relationship that would be good for egypt? >> ( translated ): we think that the united states should appreciate and understand the circumstances that egypt is living, is undergoing, to understand that egypt is keen on providing the freedoms, real democracy, that we are keen on bringing about stability, and that egypt is committed to the human rights in egypt. we are very keen to attain all of this, but within very, or under very difficult circumstances. >> rose: and the difficult circumstances are? >> ( translated ): the terrorism that we are facing, and i believe the whole world is seeing.
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we are having victims on a daily basis in sinai and in the rest of the country's area. we have been encountering this terrorism for over a year now. >> rose: you mean al qaeda in the sinai? >> ( translated ): these are only names and tags, but we're talking about extremists, jihadists, and terrorist elements that are committing violence, targeting the military, the civil police, and the state and institutions. >> rose: there is a threat today from isis, or isil, or islamic state. which do you prefer to call them, isil, isis, on the islamic state? >> ( translated ): i don't want-- i don't want us to get
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dragged into reducing, countering terrorism that needs a comprehensive strategy into countering isis or isil. it doesn't matter what name they come under. it is-- it needs a strategic-- a strategy that is comprehensive and that will include all our ingredients -- culture con41 tawgz, military confrontation, also to summit the economic abilities of the country, and reinforce the role of the moderate religious institutions in egypt. >> rose: what is egypt prepared to do today to fight that terrorism, specifically the coalition that president obama is trying to assimilate against
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isil? >> ( translated ): we have been public for our support in this matter, but, as a matter of fact, we have started earlier than this, perhaps more than a year ago, we started our counter-terrorism efforts in sinai and other places in egypt, the military and the civil police are exerting enormous efforts to provide protection for the egyptians, egypt, and also to deprive terrorism from expanding to the region. >> rose: the egyptian military was involved in trying to fight terrorism in libya, along with emirates, including the egyptian air force. will the egyptian air force support airstrikes against isis in iraq and syria? >> ( translated ): do you need
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the egyptian air force in such an effort? >> rose: yes, because the president would like it to be not americans alone against muslims, no matter how barbaric. the president would like for predominantly muslim countries to be engaged in every aspect of the fight so that it doesn't look like the united states against muslims. he needs that as an important signal in his judgment. >> ( translated ): true. true. >> rose: so will you support the president by egyptian strikes? >> ( translated ): well, give us-- give us the apaches and
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f-16s that you have been suspending for over a year and a half now. >> rose: and? if you get them? >> ( translated ): we said it before, and we reiterate the fact that we are egypt-- egypt is in a real and serious confrontation with terrorism. we have long borders with libya, and we are taking the full responsibility of securing the borders by the military and the civil police, because on the libyan side, there isn't that capability to secure the borders. in the meantime, we are exerting enormous efforts and counter-terrorism in sinai. the egyptian military is undertaking a major role in countering terrorism that in order to deprive it of the
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chance to spill over to other places in the region. let me be frank with you. the symbolism of egyptian support to the coalition is there. >> rose: it's important to have the coalition support. i mean, how do you see it working? and if there is a reason not to use egyptian forces, what's the reason? >> ( translated ): the idea is the coalition is formed, and we are part of this coalition, and the symbolism is there with our public announcement that we are part of the coalition. but i just want to say that when the matter required a size of forces to liberate kuwait when iraq is invaded. >> rose: yes. >> ( translated ): that was
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another thing. but the size of isil is very minor compared to the capabilities of the neighboring countries of iraq, like turkey, that is a nato member, that is-- compared to the strong capabilities of the iraqi army itself, and to the capabilities in the gulf states. we need to understand and read this matter within its right context. >> rose: let's talk. reforming egypt. what do you need to do? the economy is in a bad place. hodo you reform the economy? how do you gain the credibility that you need? what reforms are necessary? what rule of law is necessary? what respect for individual rights is necessary? >> ( translated ): i'd like to start with the last part of your question. we are trying with real
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willingness and deep belief to uphold the human rice rights in egypt. but we need to bear in mind the state of affairs that egypt is undergoing, and we need also to bear in mind that procedures prs that we are taking to counter terrorism. but it's very important for you to be rest assured that we are keen on honoring human right. i'm not saying this to come on the media as saying good words about human rights, but i'm saying this out of our deep belief. pubut we also need the world to understand the state of affairs that egypt is undergoing. we do not tolerate violations of human rights. as a matter of fact, we ask for redefining human right and develop how we approach that,
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and instead of reducing it to freedom of expression that we respect, it needs to be more inclusive than that. human rights should include the right to good, call the education. to decent life. to decent place to live. these are-- i consider these as important human right. and i'm very keen on honoring these in egypt. let me continue because you said that there is a difficult economic problem in egypt. but very important to know that egyptians now-- and i'm talking about the ordinary egyptian citizen-- the egyptians are conscious of their problems, and the first step for a real solution is to admit that you have a problem. now, the egyptians understand that they have an economic
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problem. they need to face, and there are two things we have to bear in mind. the egyptians accepted perhaps unprecedentedly in 40 years to accept slashing on the subsidies, something that wasn't touched by any previous governments. >> rose: you received $20 well from saudi arabia. and other gulf countries. and a year later, people say they see no change as a result of that $20 billion. it did not have an impact on the economy. >> ( translated ): but it prevented the collapse of the statehood. very briefly, of course, you are talking about-- about circumstances that, almost
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complete absence of tourism. are you talking about a need for fuel to generate electricity, to make the cars run. a lot of things had to be funded with a lot of money, and this is something that we are very great itful for our brothers in the gulf, and in saudi arabia. and i'm speak, seriously. if this had not happened, egypt we've collapsed. >> rose: so, therefore, do you need more money from arab countries as well as the united states in order to avoid an economic collapse? >> now we in a better place. we are speaking now about how to overcome the economic problem, and we have objectives. we say that if we succeed in the
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coming two years to improve our economic status, we can have a kickoff for a much better future. we still need u.s. support. we still need gulf support, and we still need a lot of investment to be injected into the egyptian economy. this is an accumulated problem over the years, and that is why we are call on all our friend to stand by us. >> rose: you mentioned help right. there is also freedom of expression, and there are those who say there was more freedom of expression under the morsi regime than there is today in egypt. that there was more open debate, more freedom of expression. do you agree with that? and if so, why?
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>> ( translated ): no, i don't agree. and i'm honest. i'm very ensear with you. the media has not changed. everybody can speak their mind in the newspapers and in the talk shows. anybody can be criticized in the media, from the president to any state institution. there is no himitation, and this is final. there is no no limitation on freedom of expression in egypt, and we are very keen on ensuring that. >> rose: let me cite a couple of examples. number one, there was a comedian, very famous, who came here and created a program similar to our own jon stewart. it was a satire. that program was taken off the air. that's not freedom of expression. that's one example. why was the program taken off
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the air? >> ( translated ): i hope you believe me. we had nothing to do with that at all. >> rose: here's something you do know about as well. the al jazeera journalist. now, i realize you believe it's in the courts, in the judiciary. john kerry spoke to you about this. i have asked this question often. you shouldn't be imprisoning journalists. they're not a threat to the state. and they're in prison in egypt. and you could do something about that. why haven't you? >> ( translated ): i will, again, i will again be honest with you. i wish egypt had not been facing such a situation in egypt.
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regardless of their indictment, or that they are innocent or guilty or innocent. the best thing was to get them out of the country. but at that time, when they were arrested, i was not responsible for the country at that time. i was only the minister defense. this is one point. the second point is that the judicial formalities are still in process. any state-- any state understands that if there is even anything, any violation on the part of the journalist, no it country would like to imprison journalists. countries would not need lengthy debates about having journalists in prison. 00 i hope that i'm clear and understood. i wish they hadn't been
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arrestedy or even standing in court. >> rose: then why don't you do something about it? trab trannow, i can't. >> rose: why not? >> ( translated ): it tawz it is in the hands of the judiciary system. they are standing court, according to the legal formalities. i cannot intervene. it doesn't mean that i don't want to intervene, but i cannot intervene. >> rose: let me understand you clearly. you would like to intervene. you would like to see them not on trial. you disagree with the indictment, but you're saying, "i can't do requesting it it." that's what you're saying. they shouldn't thereby. they shouldn't be indicted. >> ( translated ): let me be clear. let me be clear. and i'm responsible for the words i'm saying. i said i did not wish for these people to be treated that way, and they would have been deported from the country and closed that file not to be in the state we are now.
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but now they are standing trial, and they are in the hand of the egyptian judiciary, and we are very keen in this new era of egypt to make sure that we respect the jrespect the independence, do not pass judgments on their rulings. and we are determined to uphold the judiciary system. i always have shown respect to the judiciary system. if we want egypt to be as developed and asicismized-- civilized as other countries, no one doubt the judiciary judicial system, then we will have to pay the price of ensuring the independence of the judiciary and not interfering in their affairs. >> rose: and what about mr. morsey and mr. mubarak? are they still within the the
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judicial system. >> yes. >> rose: and what do they face? >> ( translated ): i don't know. it is the judge who is going to give the sentence according to-- according to the case and still the legal formalities are in process. >> rose: clearly, you talk about a new egypt. you were a military man. who became president in an election. mr. muparac was a military man, who became vice president to anwr sadat and then succeeded him and ruled egypt for a number of years. how are you different than mubarak? will be. >> ( translated ): the circumstances are quite different. and the will of the egyptians
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was the decisive fact iter there the matter you have just raised. when the egyptians wanted to end certain political rule, they ended it. when they wanted to bring morsi, they brought morsi to office. and when they wanted to stop this administration, they just revolted again as the terminators. >> rose: how will your prz against be different from mubarak prz against. how do you see yourself as different from him. many people think this is a return to something rather than a beginning of something. >> ( translated ): you shouldn't jump to conclusions, and you shouldn't pass early
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judgments. >> rose: what does that mean? >> ( translated ): it means egypt was facing extreme dange dangers, and if you want a real answer, i was called in to save egypt from failure. rose called in by whom? >> the people. you need to visit egypt and talk to the people. >> rose: i know of the popular support against the morsi government. i understand that. i also want that many peep, crgd the united states, raised real questions. said that. what should have taken place is government should have been voted out of office, not thrown out ofos, not arrested, not
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facing severe criminal penalti penalties. and that races questions, and you have to speak to those questions as you try to restore a vision of egypt that you believe reflects egypt. i repeat what i said earlier. i said there was not a mechanism to impeach the president in the former constitution. but now if the egyptians want to take action according to the new stoougz, to terminate the term of presidency perfect completion, now they can with impeachment mechanism. put the previous constitution
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did not have that mechanism. the only way to do that was through protesting and resorting to aggressive actions. >> the interesting thing. you is that you were a military man, and after tahrir square, to the surprised of some people, you became the defense minister. and now i sit here and you're the president of the country. >> ( translated ): we believe in fate and destiny. and in our plaintiffs, we know that it there is a divine providence that control many things in our life. no one can draw the story-- the story of their life from beginning to end.
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>> rose: this was not your choice is that it was fate, destiny? >> ( translated ): yes. >> rose: the destiny to do what? >> ( translated ): now we will get into-- now we will get into a debate. i hope that my role is to protect egypt and the egyptians, to achieve the hopes of egypt and the egyptians for a free country, stable country with good economic see,s that will be appropriate for the egyptians,
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that the egyptians enjoy freedom, real freedom in democratic practices. to be abe to provide and create jobs for millions of young people who are unemployed we are talking about the principles of the 25th of january revolution motives. these are livelihood freedom and social justice. if i succeed in atang those, i believe that i will attained awe the aims and hope i want for my country and my people. >> rose: what do i say to those supporters of the muslim brotherhood? >> ( translated ): i don't-- i don't refuse the opinion of the other, but i hope that their support does not change into violence because this will not be in the interest of anybody.
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but these are people-- you actually believe they're terrorists, the muslim brothe brotherhood. >> the problem is in the mindset. s the mental structure of this current that causes the problem. >> rose: what do you mean? >> ( translated ): those who adopt this kind of idol are ready to resort to violence in order to obtain their objectives. >> rose: let me ask you about some of the other players in the middle east. hamas-- there's a border with gaza. will you open that border. there are two crossings, in one way or another, and we don't
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close the cros cross unless for security reasons because tinigh is still vulnerable to rest activities. when we dealt with the tunnels, we were very careful to not-- not to make the tunnels a source of threat tote egyptian national security, and not to be a mean to smuggle illegal goods and harms. we have been dealing with tunnel for or a year and a half now but this it doesn't people that the crossing is not used for humanitarian reasons.
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it is used for these purposes. >> rose: so as long as tefs using for their childrens, and it, because you will close down tubls on the the egyptian side and not allow-- >> ( translated ): crossing is allowed through the formal crossings. >> rose: what's necessary? what's the steped for. and you can play 7 role-- to achieving an israeli-palestinian peace, which everybody believes upon is essential to the future of the region. in your judgment as thed is of a powstles country with huge
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philanthropist, and who paid awe role in the gassa trip. the gaza row. what is necessary? >> ( translated ): what is necessary is to have real will on all of our parts, to have a just solution for the palestinian issue, and to establish a palestinian state on the occupied territory of 1967 with real guarantees to the israelis and the palestinians. i believe that the first step is to achieve a lasting cease-fire. let the humanitarian relief get into the strip in order to mitigate the ramifications of
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the conflicts, and the demonstration its they saw during the past period of time. and then to build on through negotiation with strong political will, we can build the piece that we are talk become between between the palestinians and the reallies. it is encouraging for other parties to repeat, the egyptian experience. the egyptian-israeli peace was the decisive factor in enabling egypt to launch its initiative and talk with the israelis. and the israelis would accept the egyptian initiative without conditions and to be able to reach a cease-fire and stong of the bloodshed and the damages on
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both parties. >> rose: the arab spring came, and you as the military man played a role in the arab spring by, in a sense, arowg the revolution to goed for and not putting the soldiers in the streets to stop it, the ref liewks that was taking place. we saw the revolution in tunisia. we saw the revolution in syria. we saw the devastating impact of a revolution which succeeded and then seems to have failed in libya. what is the outline of a new middle east? some say it's a return to strong leaders.
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of which you are one they suggest. is that it? is that the future? where is democracy? where is separation of religion from government? what is the threat to the new middle east that you will play a role? role? >> ( translated ): too early to delineate the future of the middle east now, because the events that took place over the last four years were momentous. and they were interrelated. so to say-- i want to say was the-- was nato's mission in libya accomplished? the revolution in libya did not fail because there is the will
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of the libbians, but now this will is captive to the armored militias in the abce of a national it army -- >> a stable government. >> and a stable government and national police forces. i believe that the mission should have been completed by assembling the weapons that are now in the hand of the militias, to build the capacities of the military and the police, and to found strong national government to lead the country afterwards. but this did not happen. i don't want you to say that the libyan revolution failed. the ribbians are great people... they have a will -- >> i said actually succeeded, but then it collapsed.
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>> ( translated ): we need to ensure its continued success by preventing the flow of weapon swodz libya by supporting the legitimate parliament, the elected parliament now, to reach a political solution. >> rose: membership people look-- and i want your opinion on this-- and they look at the middle east and they say, in part it's simply a battle within islam. it is a conflict between sunni and shia. is that true? is that a large part of the conflictitate of today? >> ( translated ): we need to pay attention to the fact that this area has been there with the same structure, without
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having this conflict before. >> rose: but today, you see evidence of a conflict that has shia, sunni dimensions to it. just look at how the parties a are. iran supported an iraqi government that was shia. iran supports hez bra. iran supports hamas. some say that the battle in the middle east today is a powerful conflict between saudi arabia, on the one hand, and not egypt but iran on the other hand. >> ( translated ): i want to say that the united states has a good opportunity now to achieve stability in the region. the united states has leverage,
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has influence, and has big capabilities. u.s. reassuranced to the gulf states will be very important. request regional security arrangements will take into consideration the security of the gulf states. >> rose: are the gulf states confident that america is there for their security? >> ( translated ): the relation between the united states and the gulf is long established. what will change that? we just need to confirm it and build on it. >> rose: and that's a process that's under way, confirming and bhlg. >> ( translated ): i really hope so. >> rose: finally this evening, america very much wants you to build an inclusive government. do you give that confirmation that that's what you want to do?
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that you want a tolerant inclusive democratic government. >> ( translated ): i want to say something for history here. i'm an egyptian who loves all egyptians. i'm a person who loves all human beings, and i wish the best for everybody. but i hope that all the people would reciprocate the same feelings, whether internally or externally. we are-- this is the world of human beings, not the world of angels. but i really hope that everybody will participate. but the egyptians have to be
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satisfied about what form will the participation be? >> rose: and interest rthey satisfied? >> ( translated ): till now, no. >> rose: no. so that's your challenge. >> ( translated ): what i'm saying is the-- are the egyptians satisfied to have the full spectrum on the political scene? this is one thing that is the call of one certain group, one concern current that need to reconcile with the egyptians, to make the egyptians feel that they are or this current is one part of the enipgz fabric, and
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it is working for the best interest. i'm not working against them. >> rose: and what group is that? >> the group that we've within talkintalking about. >> rose: the muslim brotherhoobrotherhood. >> rose: yes. >> ( translated ): all they need is to stop harming and hurting the egyptians. when they put explosives on bomb, the electrical pylons and powers, when they cut railways, when they harm people in the streets, when they commit tourist activities. no egyptian will be able to tolerate that. >> rose: thank you very much. >> ( translated ): thank you very much. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episociety:
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captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
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